A Place to Stand

Good Fences - an academic investigation into how different ethnic communities have lived together successfully in Switzerland - because they have a strong cantonal system of government and good geographical barriers stopping overspill (& general social agreement against it as well), so no community feels it has to grab power to protect itself or gain advantage.

Perhaps obvious but important to have it verified.
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Review of book about the Yugoslav war. The author was clearly surprised to find our openly genocidal (ex-)Nazi allies were openly genocidal ex-Nazis or that the NATO powers accidentally didn't notice it. Err by automatically assuming, without looking at the evidence, that the Serbs were comparably evil or that NATO's crimes were carried out through ignorance. Half right then, which puts it far ahead of what our media claim.
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Inside Venice's secession movement. If the Scottish separatists were remotely as libertarian we could have a good future doing the same - but they aren't, they are big state parasites, Luddites and nihilists, who cannot be trusted to run a whelk stall let alone the most scientifically advanced country in the world (well matching Switzerland),
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"John Oliver's viral video: the best climate debate you'll ever see" - not worth watching - included only because the link leads the that Guardian headline. I do not believe every Guardian journalist or sub-editor is so ignorant as to not know that a "debate" is something in which 2 sides participate. Thus we must assume that they are deliberately lying/giving words a different meaning for what they have/copying Orwell's 1984.

So when they say they are a "liberal paper" we may assume the conventional meaning they arte hiding under that word is "lying, thieving murdering Nazi propaganda sheet for whom nobody with more humanity than a rabid dog works". No offence to any of the animals.
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EU immigration to Britain rises by 43,000. Cameron refuses to say whether his manifesto promise/lie to cut immigration to "10s not 100s of thousands" will be in the next manifesto too.
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The immensely amusing incident where John Snow on C4 introduced a Rumanian woman purely to denounce Farage and UKIP for saying he wouldn't like Rumanian Roma living next door. She said bloody right, neither would I, what a sensible politician. Don't expect C4 to broadcast anything similarly balanced except by more ignorance.
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ITV poll (so any bias is warmist) says 62% of people in Britain don't believe the warming scare - moreover the more educated and scientifically literate people are the more they see through it. Another case of an obvious result but the important thing being it is proven.
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Why do so many Proposed "Solutions to World or National Problems" Suck even in the Design Phase ? Or Fail to solve the stated problem after implementation ? from Next Big Future
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Via Steve Sailer

"Burisma Holdings, Ukraine’s largest private gas producer, has expanded its Board of Directors by bringing on Mr. R Hunter Biden as a new director.

    This is from Roger Helmer's blog. He had highlighted a Labour MP reusing the "UKIP racist" smear. I said that when there are no arguments of fact against us, such smears become the only option so we must expect more. Also the tactics we should use - don't just defend our record, counterattack:

The Labour Party, with the assistance of Tories & LibDems & the BBC propagandists, were responsible for, quite deliberately, imposing NATO “police” in Kosovo who engaged in genocide, ethnic cleansing and the dissection of thousands of living human beings to steal their body organs – all selected on racial grounds.

UKIP has never been involved in any racist obscenity 1,000th as evil as what the MPs of these parties and so unless Mr Gapes can produce irrefutable evidence, he cannot, unless he is as dishonest as he is a murdering racist pro-Nazi, ever make the claim he has about UKIP being in any slightest way remotely as racist as the approved parties.

Of course he is precisely that dishonest, and since he remains a Labour MP, that party is proven to be so too.

When they make such claims we should not simply deny it – when you are stuck denying something in politics you have half way lost, this is not fair but it is tactics – we should counter attack demanding that the speaker either produces evidence of anything remotely matching the racist atrocities they have been responsible for or apologise.

   This is in line with what I have, for many years, been saying about their Yugoslav atrocities.

   It produced a response from somebody who seems to be working fulltime as a troll on this site - never engaging in any sort of factual debate and simply using insults and assertions to support the LabConDem position (this is becoming common & I assume such people are government paid hacks). He denied that the ethnic cleansing of 350,000; the massacres; the sexual enslavement of children; or the dissections of living people had ever taken place. I, correctly if ungently, decribed this as the statement of a wholly corrupt, Nazi whore being pimped by the racist LabConDem parties who knew perfectly well that he was lying in the Nazi cause - that if he wasn't he wouyld be able to produce at least some evidence that these atrocities never happened.

   Naturally he didn't.

   However the thing worth putting this here is a statement from a completely unrelated commenter, Brian Jenkins, replying to Brian and confirming our government's atrocities. I think it is worth highlighting:

  "Brin Jenkins says:

   Jerry Pournelle listed this:

FYI from Wikipedia:

• 1944 to 1947 & 1951: 1.5 million Poles were deported from the eastern territories annexed by the Soviet Union into the western territories, which Soviets transferred from Germany to Poland. By 1950, 1.6 million Poles from the eastern territories annexed by the Soviet Union had been settled in what the government called the Regained Territories.

• 1944 to 1948: Flight and expulsion of Germans after World War II. Between 13.5 and 16.5 million Germans were expelled, evacuated or fled from Central and Eastern Europe, making this the largest single instance of ethnic cleansing in recorded history. Estimated number of those who died in the process is being debated by historians and estimated between 500,000 and 3,000,000.^[44]

• November and December 1944: more than 200,000 Danube Swabians in Yugoslavia were expelled from their homes and interned in starvation and concentration camps for the old, young and disabled. Some 30,000 workers were expelled to Russia as slave laborers for war reparations.^[45]

        
         Though I have long promoted more reporting of the atrocities "our side" & NATO police carried out in the wars against Yugoslavia, it is worth, for balance, remembering that atrocities get carried out by all sides.

        Though our schools and media airbrush these out of history.

         If you read up about the Danube Swabians they certainly did side with Hitler against their neighbours in the atrocities he committed. It is difficult to think of a way in which  locals, assuming they were not saintly, would not have expelled them. Nonetheless they should not be forgotten.

         Also worth noting the enormous dubiety about the number of death. This demonstrates one of the obscene things about genocide - since it is a crime that eliminates the witnesses, and even moreso, tends to eliminate those with an interest in the crimes being known, the numbers quoted in almost all such, owe more to politics than reality.

        This, of course, does not apply to the Jewish Holocaust where the number of 6 million is enforced by both historians and police as being certain. Though in earlier times figures between 3 & 11 million were common. This is fortunate for the western countries since they were able to justify WW2 as being against a uniquely barbaric regime without having to mention that the Germans killed 24 million Soviet citizens (something they would have had difficulty in denouncing as bad during the cold war when we were threatening to wipe out 200 million of them).

       

        This letter of mine was in the Metro on Monday. The bit in italics was edited out but it remained well above the average length of a Metro letter so that is fair. The letter went out to all our major papers and this is not the first time I have found the Metro more willing to publish unapproved opinions than the "quality" press are.:

The Crimeans are holding a referendum to quit Ukraine and join Russia.

   Steve Sailer has recently been writing more, and far more accurately, than our own beloved state media about the Ukrainian situation. He largely blames a continuing campaign by the US/NATO/EU to destabilise the place simply to be rude to the Russians.
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the rise of anti-Russian jingoism in the American media is apparent to both the right and the left. In The Nation, NYU Russian Studies professor Stephen F. Cohen lamented about the press’s run-up to the Sochi Winter Games:

American media on Russia today are less objective, less balanced, more conformist and scarcely less ideological than when they covered Soviet Russia during the Cold War.

The US media’s ideological justifications for its anti-Russianism involve gay rights (”World War G”) and democracy (“World War D”). But those concepts don’t appear much in evidence in scenes from central Kiev, where the City Hall of the embattled pro-Russian government had been occupied since December by masked men swinging iron bars. Maybe I’m just stereotyping, but the soccer hooligan Right Sector and Dynamo Kiev ultras who have done much of the fighting against the government—the lads who consider opposition leader Vitali Klitschko, the retired heavyweight champ, a wimp—don’t give off a particularly gay-friendly vibe.....

Putin has recently attempted to furnish his subjects with a conservative nationalist ideology to counter aggressive American globalist liberalism. The ex-KGB man recognizes that liberalism—in the reigning sense of minoritarianism—is suffering from diminishing marginal returns, with ever-tinier minorities the subject of its obsessions, as we see with World War G moving on to World War T. (Of course, globalist liberalism doesn’t seem to actually make countries more equal; indeed, inequality of wealth has exploded during this period of minoritarian triumph.)

Much of the American press’s anger at Russia stems from the feeling that maybe Putin is on to something. (if so Russia being attacked for decades for having a left wing ideology is now being attacked for having a right wing one - its a funny old world)

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Another reason for going for them is that those in power like to have some enemy to keep us scared and we have had Islamic terrorists for sufficiently long now to be boring

"America's Global War of Terror has been a huge moneymaker for Washington's Beltway, but it's starting to get a little old. Looking to the future, why not a replay of a tried and true honeypot: an arms race with Russia?

     This is a couple of my comments and couple of replies on a thread by Boris Johnson about how Germany was the primary cause of WW1. I went OTT, in my normal way about the more recent Yugoslav wars.  Though OTT by the standards of "acceptable debate" everything I say is, of course, entirely true.

Nothing particularly new here - the reason I am highlighting it is that one of the other comments is wholly supportive and though the other isn't, even he admits the western power's "rectifications" were wrongful
 

    This comes via the estimable Steve Sailer from Britain's only real newspaper, the Daily Mail. It concerns another of those murders our government always assure us they had no hand, or in this case no deliberate hand, in. And is another piece in place in the history of NATO war crimes, in the Nazi cause, in former Yugoslavia.

On May 7, 1999 a U.S. B-2 stealth bomber dropped five precision bombs on the Chinese embassy in Belgrade, Yugoslavia/Serbia. Later, the U.S. would announce that it had been intending to blow up a warehouse or maybe an office building, but definitely a different structure; but, you know, kids these days just can't read maps. Or the fog of war. Or something. Eventually, CIA director George Tenet admitted that the Chinese embassy was the lone target the CIA had picked out during the entire NATO bombing campaign. But of course it was all just a big mistake, and they had really sent the B-2 all the way from Missouri to blow up something down the street.......

But the plot thickened last month when Qiansao, a Hong Kong Chinese-language magazine, published a series of essays written in retirement by former Chinese President Jiang Zemin.  

In the magazine the 85-year-old former premier, who stepped down in 2004, says that the Chinese Embassy was sheltering Serbian intelligence personnel when it was bombed and that the Americans had been able to monitor Serbian military electronic communications coming out of the building. 

But just as importantly, Jiang Zemin also added that Milosevic had instructed agents to hand over to the Chinese navigation gear, part of the tail engine exhaust and thermal panels from Vega 31. The Chinese media reported that the pieces of the aircraft were picked up by cargo aircraft and flown to Beijing.

      I put this fairly long post on the C4 website. I will let you know if they answer it or censor it:

I am certain that C4's slanted coverage of this will harm ordinary people in Sri Lanka. Slanted because what is alleged to be going on cannot be understood except in connection with the war. And that during that war the Tamil Tigers were genocidal in an open manner. People whose relatives were victims of genocide are not going to be gentle in restoring order - that isn't a matter of right or wrong but an inevitability. By ignoring the Tiger atrocities and playing up present alleged, by comparison, minor stuff C4 is inciting more Tamil terrorism which will inevitably lead to retaliation.

This lack of concern for people compared  to getting a simple BandW story is common.

However there is worse hypocrisy here.
The repeated headlining of crying women & children is deeply cynical and also suggests a lack of actual facts.
It is reminiscent of the coverage the UK state media gave to Kosovo where the lack of evidence of Yugoslav atrocities was mare than made up for by pictures of crying Albanian women.

We now know that the reason there was no evidence was because the news was faked. In 4 1/2 years of Milosevic's "trial" no actual evidence of any authorised wrongdoing by the Yugoslav government could be found. Channel 4 was as deeply involved in promoting these lies and thus the criminal war against Yugoslavia, not only by pushing false propaganda stories but also by deliberately censoring mention of the genuine atrocities being carried out by the drug lords, sex slavers and organleggers hired and armed by NATO as the KLA.

Much worse.
When NATO took over Kosovo, under an agreement to disarm the KLA, run a non-racist regime and
respect Yugoslav sovereignty, they immediately appointed the KLA as police and sent them out to engage in genocide (such as the Dragodan Massacre where at least 210 unarmed civilians were murdered by NATO police outside the UK hq; to kidnap thousands of teenage girls to sell to brothels across Europe; to ethnically cleanse 350,000 people and to "arrest" thousands and dissect them while still alive to steal their body organs for western hospitals.

Does anybody at C4 suggest that the Sri Lankan government have done anything 1% as evil as these atrocities?
Does anybody at C4 suggest their government is 1% as "war criminal" as our own?

Does anybody suggest that C4's coverage of both is anything other than deliberate and almost complete censorship of atrocities more obscene, though not numerically equal, than Hitler's?
Does anybody at C4 suggest that you did not deliberately lie to promote and then censor genocide?
Does anybody at C4 deny that you have continued to censor and lie to promote the racial programme of Adolf Hitler in the region?  Every single day over the last 14 years.

In which case can there be any suggestion that we should believe a single word you are saying about Sri Lanka, let alone what you imply (but do not say) with the usual cynical pictures of crying women, are in any way true, this time round.

UPDATE Monday noon

Somewhat to my surprise the post has just appeared.
 

      This letter was published by the Scottish Daily Express on Wednesday. I was told about it but haven't actually seen an issue so there may have been a little editing but I am assured this is substantially how it appeared.

       It is hard hitting, I am proud of it, and I didn't expect it to be accepted:

 

    I was one of about 50 people in the BBC radio audience today (including a passelof schoolchildren brought in to keep up the numbers) so I got to speak 3 times and I think anybody in the audience who wanted to did.

     This links to the recording.

     We had the normal Lab/Nat/Coms plus the Herald (the one that publishes Alex Orr saying UKIP shouldn't be allowed to stand but allows no reply) & Oxfam (fakecharity).

    The questions on which I got to answer were:

Syria: I said we had been lied to for so long to bounce us into illegal wars that nobody could believe what we were told now. In particular that we were told that the Serbs were committing genocide in Kosovo but in fact it only happened after we took over when our KLA/police were allowed to kill 210 people at Dragodan outside the UK military HQ. I was pleased to get that on the record but it was ignored. Mike Fisher, another UKIP member also said we had been lied to so many times.

Welfare reform & Glasgow's role as most unemployed city: After a lot of discussion in which everybody complained about not getting enough subsidy I got on and said "All these politicians know that the only way to produce real new jobs is by getting the economy growing. They all know we could do it but only UKIP actually wants to & they don't get on the air." I should have mentioned the current 6%  rest of the world growth rate and used the word censorship. Mike Fisher lamented the way the SNP use such things divisively as if unemployment was only happening in Scotland but not England.

Technology: A rather silly question about young people being much more capable of using mobile phones and other new technology than the questioner and was this a bad thing. When I got the microphone I aid "The default position of the parties here when faced with new technology is how can we ban or restrict it. If we want a growing economy we should embrace technological progress as only the party we aren't supposed to discuss do."

   None of this will set the heather on fire but it is all grist to the mill.
   Incidentally the guy sitting beside me was very much an old socialist but lamented the fact that the socialist parties were against progress. Also, pragmatically, that there was a place for the free market to create the wealth. We very much agreed on nuclear. I suspect that with enough time I could have converted him to our side since the only real thing we disagreed on was the need to retain & glory in the word "socialism". He had been an SSP activist but was contemptuous of the way their meetings tended to be lectures about oppressing of trade unionists in 1920s Venezeula and matters similarly unconnected to progress.

   Mike Fisher has pointed out I neglected to mention his all-important point that the four pillars of the UK are its four countries that form the 'family' that make up the United Kingdom. That was but one point as a beginning of my anti-separatist, anti-SNP campaign but it received a reasonable amount of applause from the audience.

2 pieces from me. The first I put on Roger Helmer's blog and is about the constitutional importance of Parliament's vote. The second is a letter, in a more angry vein, about how we have been lied to. It went out to all and sundry but appears unpublished. I have decided to send the first out as a letter too but think it too thoughtful for the press to want to use.
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If the special relationship were that we always do what the US wants (and the US always does what the US wants) then it would be over, and good riddance.

But it isn’t. It is primarily a cultural and linguistic relationship. We both have Parliamentary governments derived from George III’s.

In that case the relationship may be strengthened. One of the changes from George III’s government is that they have a Constitution, which is literally and correctly venerated. The right to declare war is reserved to the Congress – one of the differences they introduced from George III. In Britain, up till now it has been the Royal, ie PM’s prerogative.

To Quote Abraham Lincoln on the right to declare war:

“This, our Convention understood to be the most oppressive of all Kingly oppressions; and they resolved to so frame the Constitution that no one man should hold the power of bringing this oppression upon us. But your view destroys the whole matter, and places our President where kings
have always stood.”

Thus Britain deciding that Parliament must approve war making is not a repudiation of our special relationship but a massive endorsement of it as a cultural success. Which is far more important than the issue of the day.

Paradoxically this part of the Constitution has been breached since at least the time of the Kosovo war which Clinton waged without reference to Congress.

The reason for this is that the Imperator/Duce/President/Generalisimo/PM needs to be able to threaten war credibly if he is running an imperial state. For a century and a half after George III we did. Now the US is such and we aren’t.

It is a tension which goes to the heart of whether a country is an Imperium or a Republic.

The best thing Obama could do is the ask Congress’ permission too. If he doesn’t get it he is off the hook. If he does he will have the support nationally, and indeed internationally, he needs.

Despite having the money, ships, aircraft and bombs the US is not a very good imperialist because their heart isn’t really in it. That is their saving grace.
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    Roger Helmer did an article on his "I have a dream" of a technologically progressive country. I am proud if this because of his unstinting comment:

• Roger Helmer MEP says:

  
  

  August 29, 2013 at 3:42 pm

  
  

  Thanks Neil. You’re quite right — we can’t be sure yet that the future of shale in the UK is as rosy as I hope and expect. But it would be criminal not to find out

Spiked - "That is one of the unmentioned instances of the state owned BBC/C4 proving themselves fascist propagandists rather than news reporters.

The way they select which "protests" to cover and the way they conceal and lie to promote government funded "astroturf" environmental organisations as real. Apart from greenpeace virtually every "environmental" body is as much as 90% funded by our government and the EU. Without that there would be no ecofascist movement.

Then they put a mass demonstration of 6 people across the airwaves. Yet when 500 people turned up at a recent party conference to protest against windmills it went almost unreported.
The same tactic is used on other cases. We have had considerable coverage of spontaneous demonstrations against Russia (many of the demonstrators being the same government paid greens) on the gay agenda. Watch foreign demos reported by the BBC and you will often see the filming is close up and low angle to conceal the fact that there are only a few people there (this ignores the case where the BBC took an Iranian pro-government demo and simply captioned it as anti-government).
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John Redwood on housing:

What this phenomenon shows is confirmation of my claim that at least 3/4 of housing cost is government regulation.

It is far easier to get planning permission to rebuild your own house than to build a new one elsewhere. It is also inherently far more expensive in building terms to demolish your house, maintaining the façade and then rebuild a new one reattached to the façade. Also there are always economies of scale form mass production – if the government allows mass production.

Imagine that if you wanted a new car you had to handbuild the wheels, engine, interior and chassis and then weld on the body of your old Escort. This is the equivalent.

In fact that (knocking down your own house and rebuilding it) is sufficiently cheaper as to attract anybody into putting up with the inconvenience of doing it strongly suggests that my 3/4 parasitism estimate is understated. Even 90% might well be.
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Herald - Since there was no ethnic cleansing of Albanians from Kosovo I must have some doubts about the accuracy of this account. There were a substantial number of both Albanians and Serbs who fled the bombing, though obviously the Serbs fled deeper into Serbia.

Since the bombing NATO police (as the KLA formally became) have been authorised to ethnically cleanse 350,000 Serbs, Roma, Jews, Christian Albanians and others. They also kidnapped 10s of thousands of teens to sell to western brothels and dissected 1,800 people while they were still alive to provide organs for western hospitals.
This is justified, on those rare occasions it is not censored, by our politicians, the BBC & newspapers as "revenge".
Perhaps if an ugly example of neo-nationalism is wanted that might suffice? http://www.heraldscotland.com/comment/letters/we-should-not-wallow-in-history.21940015

The degree of backwardness and waste in housing cannot be overstated. We have never seen a modern house.

      Once again we are being prepared to start bombing somebody. This time it is Syria. And this time, ignoring the undeniable atrocities carried out by our al Quaeda allies in Syria (not worst a rebel leader posting a video of him eating an opponent's body) we are preparing to attack on the basis of a claim the Syrian government used poison gas.

    Jerry Pournelle described them as "utterly unconvincing" primarily because Assad would have no possible reason to do so.

    Somewhat to my surprise BBC radio broadcast 1 person saying it was fake (don't worry they noticed and haven't broadcast anything similar since).

    His position was (A) that nerve gas produces an unmistakable dilation of the eyes and that the films produced had avoided showing close ups of the eyes which would have proven, or disproven, their claims & (B) hoses had been used to wash the bodies clean and the cameramen able to walk through the water. That water would contain the dissolved nerve gas and be deadly - except that it wasn't. This does not exclude some other chemical poison - but that would be available to the rebels as much as the government and it would be perverse to blame the government who have, it is probably correctly assumed, something more effective.

    However the clincher, as pointed out by the Russians and studiously avoided by our media is: 

“We’re getting more new evidence that this criminal act was of a provocative nature. In particular, there are reports circulating on the Internet, in particular that the materials of the incident and accusations against government troops had been posted for several hours before the so-called attack. Thus, it was a pre-planned action.”  
Linked here http://rt.com/news/syria-chemical-prepared-advance-901/
 the three videos posted on Youtube said to be showing the child victims affected by chemical weapons near Damascus. Despite the date of the alleged attack – August 21 – being mentioned in their titles, they were posted on YouTube one the previous day, August 20.  
Despite the 7-hour time difference between Syria and the US, where the YouTube server is located, the mismatch of the dates in the videos raised concerns among some experts about the exact time of the upload."

     Indeed. If film of it was released before it officially happened either the al Quaeda have their own Tardis, which would be a worrying development to say the least, or they have faked it.

     I don't see any 3rd possibility but am open to Mr Hague producing one.
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   During the Bosnian war the Serbs were accused of using poison gas at Srebrenica but, despite the effective NATO occupation of the country no evidence was ever produced. There are also a number of videos and pictures of alleged Israeli actions which turned out to be faked.

    We also have a long series of western politicians and the Doctors Without Frontiers western quango pretending to believe them.

   No change there then.

 
 
 
 
 
  I found this article on the Register about the cost of a direct Trident replacement and alternatives informative.

   There are arguments against us having nukes - mainly either that us giving them up is about the only thing that might persuade others to do so (or at least discourage new countries from joining the nuclear club. Alternatively that our own government already has such a record of war crimes, genocide, and dissecting living human beings (in Yugoslavia) that under no circumstances should any of the approved parties have a finger on the trigger.

    There is also an argument for a more flexible capacity - these nuclear submarine system was originally designed for an era when our only retaliation could be the wiping out of enemy cities as they wiped out ours. Those missiles were sufficiently inaccurate that you couldn't guarantee to hit a smaller target. Nowadays with preprogrammed or unmanned strike drones it is possible to fly a bomb onto the desk of a President so the capacity for warheads of very low capacity, often but not always sub-nuclear, enhances our options.

   However what the article proves is that neither argument should be pursued on a cost basis. Maintaining the current 4 submarines is cost effective, if only because the infrastructure exists.

    The Lib-Dem option of 3 would save very little money. Also, because it would mean there would be bound to be times when there was no submarine on station, it would not deter a surprise attack by an aggressor. In fact the only case where 3 submarines are as good as 4 is if we can guarantee that a nuclear war would only take place at a time of our choosing, which means where we are the aggressor. Typical of the openly pro-Nazi, genocide enthusiast pseudo-Liberals that they embrace the one alternative to current Trident that is of use primarily to those promoting atrocities.  

 

   Favid Cameron is about to give a, heavily pre-leaked, speech in which he makes a cast iron promise of a referendum on EU membership as soon as possible. As soon as possible being 2018, following 5 years of renegotiation,. If the people vote to quit there would then be an unspecified, but quite likely as long as 5 years, period of disentangling.

   Of course right now it looks unlikely that Cameron will have any role in government in 2018, let alone around 2023.

   But, he is going to insist, this is as fast as it can be done.

   Lets look at something that sets a different precedent.

nationalists defeated re-branded former Communist parties in Slovenia, Croatia & Bosnia & Hercegovina on 8 April 1990

Slovenia - In the Slovenian independence referendum, 1990, held on 23 December 1990, a vast majority of residents voted for independence.^[29] 88.5% of all electors (94.8% of those participating) voted for independence – which was declared on 25 June 1991

Croatia - In the Croatian independence referendum held on 2 May 1991, 93.24% voted for independence. On 19 May 1991, the second round of the referendum on the structure of the Yugoslav federation was held in Croatia. The phrasing of the question did not explicitly inquire as to whether one was in favor of secession or not. The referendum asked the voter if he or she was in favor of Croatia being "able to enter into an alliance of sovereign states with other republics (in accordance with the proposal of the republics of Croatia and Slovenia for solving the state crisis in the SFRY)?". 83.56% of the voters turned out, with Croatian Serbs largely boycotting the referendum. Of these, 94.17% (78.69% of the total voting population) voted "in favor" of the proposal, while 1.2% of those who voted were "opposed". Finally, the independence of Croatia was declared on 25 June 1991.


Bosnia & H -in February–March 1992, the government itself held a national referendum on Bosnian independence from Yugoslavia. In the Bosnia and Herzegovina independence referendum, 1992, held on 29 February and 1 March 1992, 92.7% voted for independence. That referendum was in turn declared contrary to the BiH and Federal constitution by the federal Constitution court and the newly established Bosnian Serb government; it was also largely boycotted by the Bosnian Serbs. The turnout was somewhere between 64–67% and 98% of the voters voted for independence.  ....  declared its independence on 3 March

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In January 1992, while the mediation efforts were ongoing, the European Community (now the European Union), after considerable internal debate, decided to recognize Croatia and Slovenia's independence. They deferred action on recognizing Bosnia-Herzegovina pending a referendum to determine public support for independence...

In April 1992, the EU recognized Bosnia

Promises of EU "recognition" and eventual membership undoubtedly encouraged all of them to go for secession. Indeed Bosnia was virtually dregooned into it by a promise of such support plus a warning that it would not be available if they didn't ttake this once time only today offer.     So 13 months from the elections in S and C to the declaration of independence, another 6 months for EU recognition. Even more spectacularly - 6 months in S, 1 months in C & 2 days in B&H between the referendum and independence declared.     Note that this was not in a confederation of sovereign states, as the EU is, but a union forming 1 sovereugn state, internationally trcognised as a UN member and to which all EU members had undertaken in the Helsinki Treaty, to "take no action against the territorial integrity or unity" of. Legally a far far stronger union than the EU.     So anybody who says the EU referendum has to be delayed for more than 6 months from now or that separation could not come about within a month, even within 2 days, thereafter is clealry not to be trusted to tell the truth on any other subject either.

  From the Jerusalem Post. Never reported by the obscene, racist, lying, censoring, propagandists of our own media. Lets not ever pretend that anybody who criticises Israel without criticising the the organmlegging child raping Nazi war criminals in westminster 1,000 times more is anything other than a racist Nazi or the dupe of Nazis:

This past September 11, Western leaders hailed the “fully” and “irreversibly” independent Kosovo – still unrecognized by most UN members – for achieving additional “full independence.”
The International Steering Group’s Civilian Office, which had the power to block laws or ministerial appointments, closed up shop, and Dutch international representative Pieter Feith gave a speech in Albanian which concluded that “Kosovo has realistic prospects” for EU membership.
The ISG – composed of American, European and Turkish overseers – explained its decision to grant Serbia’s Albanian separatists this full autonomy by citing the region’s “clear support of a democratic and multi-ethnic state.” US President Barack Obama said Kosovo has made “significant progress,” parroting Kosovo prime minister Hashim Thaci, who said that “Kosovo has made significant progress... in building the institutions of a modern, multi-ethnic, inclusive and democratic state.”



The Wall Street Journal praised Obama’s praise and editorialized in typical Slavophobic tones about how in 1999 president Bill Clinton had “bypassed the United Nations and sent in the US Air Force... president [George W.] Bush stood up to Russian bluster and European ambivalence to push for its independence....
though Serbia and Russia have tried to undermine it.”
AND YET at this moment our National Guard soldiers, in conjunction with German, Austrian, Hungarian, Croatian, Slovenian and other Axis allies – have their guns trained on the reluctant Serbs, in preparation for a final solution to the “northern problem.” The climate has turned explosive as the police – stocked with former KLA terrorists-cum-freedom-fighters – have been given increased autonomy, which on June 28 they used to harass, undress, drag and beat Serbian pilgrims coming for the Patriarch’s liturgy on St. Vitus Day.
To seal the next stage of Kosovo’s dark evolution, KFOR will dismantle the last of the barricades, during which we are likely to see a provocation – used intermittently to goad Serbs into reacting – which then will “necessitate” forceful action to finally integrate them into Kosovo’s institutions. This will achieve a de facto acceptance of Kosovo as reality and, for our part, the fulfillment of Albanian territorial demands.
The Serbs will be the ones fingered, yet again, for causing the problems – since that’s whom NATO troops are being pitted against as they extend the thugocracy to the north. Just in time, the otherwise sparse cameras will be invited back in, to get the approved Kosovo story, reinforcing the edifice of lies upon which “the world’s newest country” is built.
“KFOR announces reinforcements with the new unit that should discipline Serbs in northern Kosovo,” is how Radenko Nedeljkovic, head of Kosovska Mitrovica county, put it. He called on Serbs not to be provoked but to continue with peaceful means of staying in Kosovo.
However, the organized Kosovo-wide pogroms of March 2004 – one of those truly defining events that nonetheless manages to slip into Balkan oblivion – gave us a taste of their likely fate, should they stay in an independent Kosovo.
Internationals there noted that the deadly riots only stopped when Thaci and Kosovo’s Security Forces Minister Agim Ceku said “stop” – three days in. Forty-thousand Serbs fled the province then, joining the 200,000 who had fled upon the terror unleashed by the KLA as NATO’s ground force in June 1999. The pogrom was a message to the international community to move faster on independence. It was successful.
Our Kosovo intervention “demonstrated to the world that terrorists can indeed successfully alter the borders of sovereign nations,” read a recent letter in this newspaper by reader Michael Pravica, “and encourages secessionists the world over as national borders unravel because of the desecration and erosion of international law.”
ATTESTING TO the State Department’s vast efforts on behalf of its ill-begotten progeny, Thaci’s byline has been popping up in American newspapers, where he called the end of supervision “a recognition that Kosovo has evolved into a mature, independent democracy,” and referred to Kosovo as a “success story for democratic values.”
This is a man whose criminal history and countless rackets are legendary in Albania. A recent two-year Council of Europe investigation exposed that Hashim “the Snake” Thaci “is the head of a ‘mafia-like’ Albanian group responsible for smuggling weapons, drugs and human organs,” read The Guardian in December 2010.
These are more than mere accusations, as several Albanians recently have risked their lives to come clean about what they witnessed in 1999-2000 as guards of the holding pens, drivers of the doomed, and organ-deliverers.
A notorious gangster widely known to have killed his own roommate, Thaci executed his political rivals including six of his lieutenants the very week he was meeting with then-US secretary of state Madeleine Albright. In February 2002, a UN Mission in Kosovo police officer told the Reality Macedonia news site how he was ordered to nix the investigation of a close Thaci associate named Kadolj, who had the KLA evicting people and collecting illegal taxes for Thaci’s party, the PDK (Democratic Party of Kosovo). Kadolj further “threatened to kill the local UNMIK administrator... [when he] was asked to move his office out of the Municipality building.”
Thaci’s predecessor, Ramush Haradinaj, also a prolific killer, was airlifted to a US hospital in 2000 after he started a gunfight with a rival clan. US officials from Camp Bondsteel removed evidence in the case and suppressed the investigation, according to The London Observer of September 10, 2000, and AFP on October 25, 2000.
In the course of his 2007 war crimes trial at The Hague, several witnesses were killed and others were threatened and dropped out.
“United Nations prosecutors in The Hague accused him of having organized the slaughter of civilians during the war,”

Mothers, children, simple farmers. Christ, like pigs in a ditch. He has always denied it.”

Kosovo is a gangster’s paradise where even the newspapers publish threats against journalists as “letters to the editor,” in defense of the homicidal officials who subsidize the papers through ads. This “modern democracy” is ruled by fear, with a mafia grip over the population, some of whom are now commenting that there were never such media constrictions under Belgrade.
LAST YEAR, a Foreign Policy article titled “Thug Life” called Washington out for entrenching an elite that operates above the law: “It is difficult to see how democracy or respect [for] the rule of law could develop and flourish amid such overt displays of American support for a corrupt and criminal leadership... [It] has undercut efforts to pursue indictments for war crimes and investigate high-level corruption.
The war crimes... have never been fully investigated – in fact, in some cases they have been covered up.”
In early 1999, some newspapers tried to give Americans a sense of the nature and genesis of Thaci’s narco-terrorist KLA, which had been a purely criminal outfit until we ruthlessly backed and rebranded it. But with none of the bad news sticking, today we are helping seal a fait accompli of yet another terror-won, ethnically pure state in the Balkans. In this case, a second Albanian state that will eventually form a Greater Albania, as was the ultimate goal, and the open secret, from the start.
The EU and NATO likewise are talking Kosovo membership already, while putting Serbia off until it says “Uncle (Sam).” In other words, a Muslim non-country is on a faster track than an ancient Christian country that was a founding UN member.
Now having a creeping sense that “liberated Kosovo” was only ever intended as a base of criminal operations, lawful-minded Albanians and Serbs alike should demand that some of the compromise solutions that had been swept off the table be put back on.

   Presumably members of the British media, if ever forced to answer, would say that the British govenment, undeniably complicit in racial genocide, child rape and dealing drugs and murdering people to deal in their organs can't be 1,000th as "newsworthy" as far lesser, unproven, allegations against whicherver country we are next to bomb or they would give it 1,000th as much coverage.

"Good morning, I am a psychiatrist, a literary man. Instead of being accused I should be rewarded for the good things I did," Karadzic said.

"I stopped our army many time when to were close to victory, looking for peace," Karadzic added. "I accepted four out of five peace proposals. In addition, I personally supervised humanitarian aid."

"Everybody who knows me knows I am not an autocrat, I am not aggressive, I am not intolerant," he told the judges. "On the contrary, I am a mild man, a tolerant man with great capacity to understand others."....

Karadzic advocated he was against the division of Bosnia-Herzegovina and that he was "pushed into a corner" by other parties. "All the time we defended ourselves", he said. "We had controlled over 60 percent of Bosnia. I knew it would be crazy to get more."

"I trusted the international community and often attacked our officers," Karadzic said regarding alleged war crimes by the Bosnian Serb Army.

"I tended to believe the rumors, the lies and the propaganda, although I knew their families were killed. I tended to accuse them, mostly not correct."

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  Radovan Karadzic's opening speech for the defence in his "trial".

  Despite the coverage of the BBC and our own media generally it seems difficult to dispute this.

  It is a matter of public record that the Bosnian Serbs did indeed accept all these cease fires - all offered when they were winning and all subsequently broken by the WW2 Nazi Izetbegovic leading the Moslem side.

  Perhaps Karadzic can be blamed for accepting these cease fires and promises from the NATO side - thereby prolonging the war. However being trusting is not a war crime.

  That the war was started by the Moslem Nazis is also a matter of record. Under the Bosnian constitution at the time the war started under the rotating Presidency arrangement the legal president at the time of the entity Karadzic is accused of making war on was Radovan Karadzic. Izetbegovic was the one using force to hold power.

  The first fighting, if it may be dignified by the term, was when Moslem government forces from Sarajevo shot up the wedding party killing Nikola Gardovic, the groom's father and an Orthodox priest. I do not think anybody who is not so openly a Nazi as to believe slavic peoples have no right to defend themselves whatever the circumstances could ever claim that Karadzic and the Serbs were engaged in a war of self defence.

  Indeed nobody who is not a wholly corrupt out and out Nazi has ever done so though almost every British politician, broadcaster or newspaper has done so repeatedly.

  The main charges against Karadzic are over the siege of Sarajevo and the alleged marketplace bombings and sniping and over the Srebrenica massacre.

General Michael Rose, the British head of UNPROFOR, revealed in his memoirs that three days after the blast he told General Jovan Divjak, the deputy commander of ARBiH forces, that the shell had been fired from Bosnian positions.

When the sniper killings got to bad the French peacekeepers told Izetbegovic if his snipers didn't stop killing their own people to help western propagandists they would return fire on those shooting from his party headquarters building. It immediately stopped.

  The only undisputed Srebrenica massacre is of the 3870 Serb civilians in surrounding villages, carried out by Moslem Nazi commander Nasir Oric, with the deliberate and active assistance of NATO "peacekeepers". Several of the different variants of the "official" massacre story have been disproven and there is no evidence to support the current 8,000 dead tale - fewer than 2,000 bodies have been found which is less than those acknowledged to have been killed in combat.

   Certainly by comparison with almost every UK politician involved, Karadzic is deserving of approbation.

  Of course none of this matters to the NATO funded "trial".

  When Milosevic's "trial" was concluding with no evidence against him he was poisoned with 'Rifampicine" found in his blood test.

  When Seselj was about to win the Serbian election he, despite having not even been a member of Milosevic's government, was "indicted" by the NATO funded "court". 10 years later he is still imprisoned despite his first "trial" having collapsed due to the fact there was absolutely no evidence against him.   

  Of course such things can happen without public outcry only if our media, politicians and judiciary are wholly completely and totally corrupt - willing to tell any lie and censor any fact in the cause of totalitarianism, war crimes, ethnic cleansing, genocide and indeed worse. So far that has clearly been the case.

    When Britain and the other NATO countries are free these "trials" will be seen to be as pivotal in discrediting the modern Nazis as Stalin's show trials are in discrediting him. In much of the rest of the world this is already the case.
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Slightly amended this has also gone out to 60 of the most prominent papers in the UK and US with this undernote 

 "Nominally this could statistically only fail to be published by at least one mainstream paper in the NATO countires if either (A) it was easily proven both factually untrue and illiterate by the standards of all these papers or (B) every last one of you were (except the Morning Star & Asia Times) wholly corrupt and willing to publish any lie and censor any fact so that you could personally have a small role in atrocities worthy of Hitler.

Don't worry - don't really expect you to publish it or any edited version. Such traces of honesty or decency would be out of character.

I just wanted to give Britain and America's journalists the opportunity to prove whether you have more decency than the guards at Auschwitz. Be comforted that my expectation was never that any of you would.
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 I'll let you know if I am wrong.   For a journalist, more honest and far less racist than all of those in the British and US MSM put together try Julia Gorin. 

  " Christians are massively leaving post-war Bosnia-Herzegovina amid mounting discrimination and Islamization, according to a new report released Friday, October 12. "