Thursday, July 24, 2008
ERRATA AROUND THE NET
Jerry Pournelle had been having a discussion on numbers of people killed by religion Vs those killed by atheists. He listed Hitler Stalin, Mao & Pol Pot as atheist mass murderers & that the number killed by the latter exceeds all of those killed in the name of religion. This created some discussion over whether Hitler was an atheist or a Christian. Surfing I found this quote
Any tally is distorted both ways in that (A) atheism is a relatively recent phenomenon whereas religions have had thousands of years to work up their tally but (B) population is so much larger now.
I incline to H Beam Piper's view that monotheistic religions are inherently less tolerant than those which already accept the existence of numerous Gods It is clear nobody has a monoploy on atrocity.
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On Biased BBC as part of an open thread an ex-British soldier who served in Bosnia wrote (Pounce 23rd 6.32pm), who while not stating Serb guilt gives these firsthand examples purely of Croat & Moslem atrocities:
"I unlike a lot of posters here was actually in country (Went out with the rapid reaction force) first of all in Ploce and then I moved up to GV. Let me get this straight The Serb did wrong. But so did the Croats and so did the Muslims.
For example ref Srebrenica what isn’t made that public is that while the Serbs at first respected the sanctuary of the town. What was happening was the idiots amongst the Muslims used to conduct hit and run attacks on the Serbs and then run back to the safety of the UN enclave. (Hang on its supposed to be a safe area) I’m not excusing the Serbs but there are two sides to every story.
When the Rapid reaction force landed we landed a load of 432 ambulances and they moved up country. Imagine my shock when a few weeks later as I myself moved up country I saw the very same convoy parked outside GV in a straight line. The Army of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina (ARBiH) or Muslims had set up a check point which consisted of a few young lads with guns , a few land mines and a wooden hut cafe which is where the squaddies used to find something to eat and drink. Only when the Yanks and NATO attacked the Serbs did the Muslims let them in.
In GV we had 2 major camps The British one and across town the UN one. (Sector south west) The town was split in two half Croat (Catholic) and half Muslim) When they weren’t fighting the Serbs the two used to fight amongst themselves. When I saw fight I mean with AK47s and buses of Croat school girls were a legitimate target.
The ARBiH used to steal UN vehicles and paint them green so as to fill their MT pool . This was usually done at gun point. Many an Aid worker had to be sent home as after having a gun stuck in their face they wanted out. When the vehicles needed servicing or had something break (like a flat tire) they would abandon them on the road and steal another.
The UN paid a bunch of locals to remove our rubbish from camp. We followed them one day and watched how they just emptied it all in the river. The Muslim secret police had as their interrogation rooms a building which looked over the river. Their victims were simply thrown out of the window.
On patrol we came across a village in which the Muslim half had forced all their Croat neighbours into their church and set fire to it. Anybody who tried to leave was shot. When we asked them why?
(And I was attached to an RMP patrol at the time) They said “The secret police told us to do so” That isn’t second hand that is what I heard from our interpreters lips.
Oh and we had the Muhajadeen in country . They used to prance around with pink ribbons in their hair and used to piss us off by having really loud call to prayers first thing in the morning and last thing at night. (Not a good thing to do with a camp of knackered squaddies armed with rifles and trying to sleep.)
There are loads more stories like that I can recollect . But before we only castigate the Serbs. (And yes Karadzic is a cock.) lets us not forget that the other two parties are just as bad. Also the rumination by both the UN and the EU helped send many people to their deaths. A stance which is still extant in Sudan.
pounce | 23.07.08 - 6:32 pm | #
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Ewan Watt says he has voted for me in 7th place for the Top 110 Political Blogs in Britain. I'm very flattered.
If you fancy voting, drop an email to toptenblogs@totalpolitics.com
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Oliver Kamm won't be voting for me. Yesterday I put a comment on a thread of his about Karadzic. Not only did he delete it on the grounds that I am a "racist nutter" whose remarks about the ITN "concentration camp" video had been disproved by the libel case but today's post says that I will not be able to comment there again. His right & he has a record of not permitting posts that dispute, although to be fair most, of the subsequent comments on that thread don't agree with him.
His post today undertakes to prove how dreadful Karadzic is. The evidence amounts to an alleged & unwittnessed quote presented by somebody Kamm approves of & the fact that Richard Holbrooke (former US ambassador & who said the day before one of the Sarajevo mortar attacks which the Molsem Nazis staged on their own people, that such an attack was needed to justify US bombing), Ed Vuliamy (part of Penny Marshall's team that "accidentally faked" the concentration camp video) & the Independent all say he is bad. His final evidence that Karadzic is the devil incarnate is that I support him.
Well Ollie since you don't accept replies:
Calling me a racist is merely the very highest standard of honesty of which you are capable, ie a lie. If I am a nutter then the fact that on no occasion have you felt able to dispute anything I have said with facts rather than censorship, doesn't speak well for your own grasp on reality. You lied about what the ITN-LM trial decided. The judge was quite clear, as the quote I posted yesterday shows, that LN were factually right about ITN having faked the video, that Ms Marshall & co haing "contradicted themselves" in their testimony & that the only reason ITN should win was because it had proved impossible for LM to provide proof that ITN had done so with intent.
The fact that ITN rebroadcast the footage on Tuesday, repeating the claim that it was a concentration camp despite having a judicial ruling that this was a lie may now remove any doubt.
Mr Kamm I do not believe you are a fool. The only alternative is that, in supporting the likes of Tudjman, Izetbegovic & the KLA you are knowingly & deliberately lying to support Nazis who have engaged in genocide & worse (I did not until recently believe there could be worse than genocide). You do this often for money. There are names for such people but I would not wish to insult ladies of the night with the comparison.
Goebbels, Nazi Minister of Propaganda, noted:
"The Fuhrer is deeply religious, though completely anti-Christian. He views Christianity as a symptom of decay. Rightly so. It is a branch of the Jewish race... Both [Judaism and Christianity] have no point of contact to the animal element, and thus, in the end, they will be destroyed."
http://constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id2.html
Of course this is only from the horse's assistants' mouth. but I suspect, insofar as he had a coherent continuous opinion over his period in power it is about right, though he (& the pope) went to some lengths to keep up appearances. Which is, after all, what many politicians do.
Any tally is distorted both ways in that (A) atheism is a relatively recent phenomenon whereas religions have had thousands of years to work up their tally but (B) population is so much larger now.
I incline to H Beam Piper's view that monotheistic religions are inherently less tolerant than those which already accept the existence of numerous Gods It is clear nobody has a monoploy on atrocity.
-----------------------------
On Biased BBC as part of an open thread an ex-British soldier who served in Bosnia wrote (Pounce 23rd 6.32pm), who while not stating Serb guilt gives these firsthand examples purely of Croat & Moslem atrocities:
"I unlike a lot of posters here was actually in country (Went out with the rapid reaction force) first of all in Ploce and then I moved up to GV. Let me get this straight The Serb did wrong. But so did the Croats and so did the Muslims.
For example ref Srebrenica what isn’t made that public is that while the Serbs at first respected the sanctuary of the town. What was happening was the idiots amongst the Muslims used to conduct hit and run attacks on the Serbs and then run back to the safety of the UN enclave. (Hang on its supposed to be a safe area) I’m not excusing the Serbs but there are two sides to every story.
When the Rapid reaction force landed we landed a load of 432 ambulances and they moved up country. Imagine my shock when a few weeks later as I myself moved up country I saw the very same convoy parked outside GV in a straight line. The Army of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina (ARBiH) or Muslims had set up a check point which consisted of a few young lads with guns , a few land mines and a wooden hut cafe which is where the squaddies used to find something to eat and drink. Only when the Yanks and NATO attacked the Serbs did the Muslims let them in.
In GV we had 2 major camps The British one and across town the UN one. (Sector south west) The town was split in two half Croat (Catholic) and half Muslim) When they weren’t fighting the Serbs the two used to fight amongst themselves. When I saw fight I mean with AK47s and buses of Croat school girls were a legitimate target.
The ARBiH used to steal UN vehicles and paint them green so as to fill their MT pool . This was usually done at gun point. Many an Aid worker had to be sent home as after having a gun stuck in their face they wanted out. When the vehicles needed servicing or had something break (like a flat tire) they would abandon them on the road and steal another.
The UN paid a bunch of locals to remove our rubbish from camp. We followed them one day and watched how they just emptied it all in the river. The Muslim secret police had as their interrogation rooms a building which looked over the river. Their victims were simply thrown out of the window.
On patrol we came across a village in which the Muslim half had forced all their Croat neighbours into their church and set fire to it. Anybody who tried to leave was shot. When we asked them why?
(And I was attached to an RMP patrol at the time) They said “The secret police told us to do so” That isn’t second hand that is what I heard from our interpreters lips.
Oh and we had the Muhajadeen in country . They used to prance around with pink ribbons in their hair and used to piss us off by having really loud call to prayers first thing in the morning and last thing at night. (Not a good thing to do with a camp of knackered squaddies armed with rifles and trying to sleep.)
There are loads more stories like that I can recollect . But before we only castigate the Serbs. (And yes Karadzic is a cock.) lets us not forget that the other two parties are just as bad. Also the rumination by both the UN and the EU helped send many people to their deaths. A stance which is still extant in Sudan.
pounce | 23.07.08 - 6:32 pm | #
-------------------------
Ewan Watt says he has voted for me in 7th place for the Top 110 Political Blogs in Britain. I'm very flattered.
If you fancy voting, drop an email to toptenblogs@totalpolitics.com
--------------------------
Oliver Kamm won't be voting for me. Yesterday I put a comment on a thread of his about Karadzic. Not only did he delete it on the grounds that I am a "racist nutter" whose remarks about the ITN "concentration camp" video had been disproved by the libel case but today's post says that I will not be able to comment there again. His right & he has a record of not permitting posts that dispute, although to be fair most, of the subsequent comments on that thread don't agree with him.
His post today undertakes to prove how dreadful Karadzic is. The evidence amounts to an alleged & unwittnessed quote presented by somebody Kamm approves of & the fact that Richard Holbrooke (former US ambassador & who said the day before one of the Sarajevo mortar attacks which the Molsem Nazis staged on their own people, that such an attack was needed to justify US bombing), Ed Vuliamy (part of Penny Marshall's team that "accidentally faked" the concentration camp video) & the Independent all say he is bad. His final evidence that Karadzic is the devil incarnate is that I support him.
Well Ollie since you don't accept replies:
Calling me a racist is merely the very highest standard of honesty of which you are capable, ie a lie. If I am a nutter then the fact that on no occasion have you felt able to dispute anything I have said with facts rather than censorship, doesn't speak well for your own grasp on reality. You lied about what the ITN-LM trial decided. The judge was quite clear, as the quote I posted yesterday shows, that LN were factually right about ITN having faked the video, that Ms Marshall & co haing "contradicted themselves" in their testimony & that the only reason ITN should win was because it had proved impossible for LM to provide proof that ITN had done so with intent.
The fact that ITN rebroadcast the footage on Tuesday, repeating the claim that it was a concentration camp despite having a judicial ruling that this was a lie may now remove any doubt.
Mr Kamm I do not believe you are a fool. The only alternative is that, in supporting the likes of Tudjman, Izetbegovic & the KLA you are knowingly & deliberately lying to support Nazis who have engaged in genocide & worse (I did not until recently believe there could be worse than genocide). You do this often for money. There are names for such people but I would not wish to insult ladies of the night with the comparison.
